(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “LAUREL CANYON”)
DANIELLE PONDER: (Singing) I thought I left my mind…
AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
Former public defender Danielle Ponder left a career in law for one in music. We asked her, if her latest album was arguing a case in court, what would it be?
PONDER: I think maybe it’s the case for survival. There’s a lot of pain in this album. Some pain that people actually don’t survive.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “LAUREL CANYON”)
PONDER: (Singing) Tired of running from myself, full speed on a nowhere road.
The thought behind that is realizing, oh, I can be here.
RASCOE: Danielle Ponder’s new album, “Everything Has Changed,” is out now, and she joins us from WABE Studios in Atlanta. Welcome.
PONDER: Thank you so much for having me.
RASCOE: We last had you on the show back in 2020, so – I mean, peak pandemic. And you were talking to Scott Simon about your Tiny Desk contest entry, “Poor Man’s Pain.”
To borrow from the title of your album, everything has changed. What about you as an artist has changed since then?
PONDER: I think that I have learned so much through the personal changes in my life, and I’m learning how to relax a little bit more in my art. And I’m learning that as an artist, you have to be in a flow state. But as a public defender, you are really in more of an adversarial situation. So I think I’m at a place where I’m really learning to let go. And, you know, if someone doesn’t play the right bassline, it is not a crisis ’cause no one’s going to prison for that, you know?
RASCOE: What is it like to make that jump away from the courtroom? And how practically have you made the shift to that flow state? What does that look like?
PONDER: You know what? It’s absolutely beautiful to be where I am because this is what I dreamed of. I dreamed of being able to do music full time. Being an attorney, you have a certain critical mindset. I think, as an artist, it requires you to do less of the brain and more of the heart. And I think I realized somewhere in this process, you know, the mindset of the lawyer will kill me, but the artist is going to free me.
RASCOE: And one of the standout tracks on this album is the song “Power.”
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “POWER”)
PONDER: (Singing) Black power in the Mississippi Delta. Black power when Mary sing “Shelter.” Pulling up in the streets of Kampala, there’s a calling for the sons and the daughters.
RASCOE: You mentioned the Mississippi Delta, Kampala, later Dakar and the Carolinas. What did you want this song to say about the power of the diaspora in Black communities around the world?
PONDER: Well, one, I’m hoping it helps in the diaspora wars because…
RASCOE: Yeah.
PONDER: I think that we are such a powerful people and could be even more powerful if we were united. And so when I talked about Blackness, I wanted to make sure I talked about the people in Dakar and the people in Mississippi. This was the last song to go on the album ’cause I just felt like the album wasn’t complete unless I had something anthemic for Black folks.
RASCOE: When you talk about diaspora wars – this idea that there’s a tension there, right? And so, but you’re saying that there’s not tension there, or…
PONDER: Yeah.
RASCOE: …There shouldn’t be?
PONDER: There shouldn’t be tension. I mean, believe it or not, Ayesha, I got a lot of backlash because I posted this on Juneteenth, and there were Africans in the video. And I couldn’t believe how many comments I got from people who referred to themselves as foundational Black Americans. I went to Dakar at 17. So for me, I didn’t really see much of a division because that early experience. I think we are all African people, and some of us just got dropped off at different places.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “POWER”)
REENAH GOLDEN: Black is the color. Black is the color of love.
RASCOE: On this album, you get vulnerable at times, especially talking about love or, you know, these different kind of versions of love. But everything still feels really rooted in a strength. And, you know, on the track “Ya Mama’s Love Song,” you’re telling someone they can’t get to you anymore, and this is not your mama’s love song. You’re tired of making yourself small for them. But at the same time, you’re letting your audience know that you have felt exposed.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “YA MAMA’S LOVE SONG”)
PONDER: (Singing) Is it any wonder how we made it through the years? Is it any wonder how I’m standing despite my tears?
RASCOE: Tell me more about how you’re showing yourself as both strong – you’re a mountain – but, at the same time, admitting that you didn’t always know your worth. You know, that – or the person in the song didn’t always know their worth.
PONDER: Yeah. I’m proud when I’m listening to this because I’ve gone through so much in these last three or four years. I’ve had some really hard relationships, one of them that ended during a miscarriage. I’ve had a lot of struggles with my self-worth. I didn’t think I could finish this album. And so when I hear that part that says, I wonder how I made it through the years, I think the strength is in the staying, in the resilience – right? – that I’m still here despite it. And so I think there’s moments on this album where I’m completely broken. But there is hope in the moments where I’m like, OK, all right. Let me get up. Let me dust my knees off, and let me keep it moving.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “SEASONS”)
PONDER: (Singing) Nothing’s going to save me. I’m home here. I’m home here.
RASCOE: When you say that you didn’t know whether you could get done with this album, what really made you feel like you didn’t know whether you could do this anymore?
PONDER: You have to really work hard on following your internal compass, because if you don’t, you could get lost in the process. And I think – well, I can’t speak for everybody else, but I know there are sometimes concerns when an album is coming out. You need to be like, yes, and I – this was so great and the experience and – this was a lot…
RASCOE: Yes. Yeah.
PONDER: …For me to get through. And I think – I really do think somewhere midway in the process, I started saying, hey, girl, you’re going to have to find the thing that you really want to say. I’m just kind of proud of getting to the top of that mountain.
RASCOE: When you’re feeling down, when you’re feeling, you know, that insecurity, all those things that can creep up on really all of us, what gets you up off the floor? What gets you up and going?
PONDER: I think spiritually, I believe I will be protected and provided for. And I really do believe there’s 1,000 Black women in my bones and in my blood and in my DNA. And so if they survived it, so can I.
RASCOE: That is beautiful. That’s Danielle Ponder. Her new album, “Everything Has Changed,” is out now. Thank you so much for speaking with us today.
PONDER: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “LAUREL CANYON”)
PONDER: (Singing) I think I’m heading home. Tired of running from myself Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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